When gringa blogger Flora wrote about her experiences studying at PUC Rio, the reaction was immediate and sent a ripple through the education community in Rio and even Brazil. It also made the local news, and started an interesting dialogue about university education in Brazil. Some people were angry, and accused her of being an arrogant American; others were excited that someone dared point out problems in the system. So I decided to ask around and see what other foreigners' experiences were like studying abroad in Brazil. I also asked Brazilians who studied abroad to compare their experiences. I've included some of the responses here.
The conclusion? It's a mixed bag. Generally speaking, students tended to have better academic experiences at public universities, more so than private universities. Some noted that there were great opportunities for students outside of class, including internships and research positions. Students who studied liberal arts or social sciences tended to feel less challenged than those studying math or science, though Portuguese was a challenge for most. Many perceived less flexibility for students to choose classes, and more limited opportunities for in-depth classroom discussions or critical thinking in class. Some students found they worked harder than their peers in some classes, just in order to keep up in terms of the language. Many found that students often talked in class or took phone calls (one even mentioned students left in the middle of class to get high). Several mentioned professors who threatened to fail the entire class, and professors who read straight from the texts during class. Several mentioned challenging research or long-term projects that they found challenging and made them feel accomplished. After hearing these experiences, I'd recommend direct exchanges to public universities for anyone looking for a more challenging immersion experience with more opportunities for academics.
The common factor for everyone I spoke to is that no matter the academic experience, they all developed a love for Brazil, and developed relationships with friends, classmates, teachers, and even future spouses. Some went on to work with Brazil from the US, or even moved back to Brazil. In the case of those who are Brazilian and went abroad, they returned with both an appreciation for advantages of their home schools and ideas for improvements.
Note: I'm still happy to take submissions and add them to the post or comments, so please feel free to share your experience.
Read individual experiences after the jump, including experiences at PUC Rio, PUC São Paulo, USP, FGV São Paulo, Universidade Católica de Salvador, and UENF.
PUC Rio
Home School: UC Santa Cruz
Area of study in Brazil: Math, science, history, Portuguese
On the academic challenge
My math classes were hard both in Brazil and UCSC. At PUC, I remember some of the professors didn't assign homework or even tell us what book to use. It was harder to determine what the expectations were in PUC classes than back at UCSC. At UCSC, professors clearly defined what topics would be covered, how we would be graded, & how the class would be on the 1st day of class. At PUC, this didn't seem to happen and it made it harder for me to figure out what professors expected of students. The math was hard. Portuguese classes were also difficult, but I felt they were taught in a more organized way, with expectations clearly defined.
Perception of Brazilian students
The math students were very dedicated in Brazil, and they were also very dedicated at UCSC. My florestas tropicais class and the Brazilian history class had some students who seemed to be partying more than studying, but the math students were quite serious. More, I remember that PUC had a lot of rich kids and that I wasn't used to being around so many wealthy students--the University of California attracts students of all different backgrounds and has lots of scholarship students. I made friends with some of the scholarship students at PUC, and found them to be much more down-to-earth than some of PUC's wealthier party-kids ("patricinhas & mauricinhos").
What she gained academically
My Portuguese improved by leaps and bounds. I am so happy that I did the year abroad (2 semesters). In my 2nd semester Portuguese class, we read "Agosto" by Rubem Fonseca, which went nicely with the Brazilian history class (which also covered the 1950s, and suicide of President Getulio Vargas in August of 1954). I learned so much more about Brazil and Brazilians by being in Brazil at PUC. It inspired me to declare a 2nd major when I returned to UCSC and stay for a 5th year to complete a major in Brazilian Studies.
Best part of the experience
I made friends with exchange students and some Brazilian students that I am still friends with today, 10 years later. Those friendships are undoubtedly the best part of my experience at PUC. One of my favorite memories of the year at PUC was when we threw a Thanksgiving feast at my house in Gávea. I had a host brother & sister who were also college-aged and their friends with my friends and my host parents and the couple who worked at the house (the maid & gardener) were all there, and it was a wonderful day. I'll never forget our Thanksgiving with feijao & arroz, with the Brazilians asking the Americans to explain if Thanksgiving was a religious holiday or what, and the cranberry-raisins my mom sent me from the USA so that we could make a reconstituted cranberry sauce in Rio.
Luc
Home school: PUC Rio
Study abroad school: American University
Area of study in Brazil: Law
First off, it must be said that since law is considered a graduate course in the US, I had to take classes from the undergraduate schools at AU since I obviously do not have an undergraduate degree yet. So while at AU I decided to take classes I had actual interest in, most of them in the School of International Service.
Here at PUC they have a credit system, similar to the one at AU. This means I get to pick and choose somewhat when in my course when I take both mandatory and optional classes (unless there is a prerequisite, of course). However, the sheer amount of subjects a person has to take in Law School (and, quite frankly, in most o the other Schools, since it's something MEC institutes) makes it pretty much impossible for a student to have the time to take classes they are just interested in. What is even more problematic, the subjects that are mandatory greatly outnumber those that are optional. To put it this way: while at AU a student usually have to do X credits in the School of International Service, for example, with a large amount of subjects to pick from in order to fulfill those credits, at PUC, most of the time, you HAVE to do a specific subject, without which you simply don't graduate. Choosing classes at AU I chose those that I had great interest in. Choosing classes at PUC I basically try to avoid those professors that I know are terrible teachers (and unfortunately there are still many of these at the Law School), and pick whatever fits my schedule. While at AU I took 5 subjects tops per semester (if I took any more I wouldn't be able to keep up), I am currently taking 10 subjects this semester at PUC (and not having that much of an issue keeping up with them, even though I am also part of two research groups and the TA program, and I am working 20 hours a week).
This gets me to your question about the amount of work, which to me is one of the biggest differences. At PUC, it really depends on the professor. Last semester I literally had no homework, all my classes were lectures, and I pretty much studied for them on the eve of the exam and got really good grades. This semester some of the professors give me homework, but they are not nearly as time consuming as at AU. Even when I have homework at PUC, most of it is just writing something, there is no reading. Yeah, the professors may say you have to try to keep up with class by reading one of the manuals, but the truth is that most classes are just lecture classes, there is no dialogue with the class, and I have realized you really don't need to do the reading in order to be in class. At AU, on the order hand, I had readings for every single class. One of the more advanced classes I took had me read a whole book per week. And here is the thing: if you don't do the reading, you can't be in class. You will NOT be able to keep up, and the professors WILL call on you to criticize the reading and discuss. The way the grades are given also reflects that: at AU most of the grades are not exams, but rather papers, participation in class, and essays. At PUC, there is usually no negotiation: midterm and final.
About critical thinking: there are very, very, very few and precious classes at PUC where I was actually challenged to think critically. Most of the professors are not open to criticism of their ideas at all (even when they say they are), and tend to not take students ideas into consideration because, as they see it, "we are just students". There is a deeply ingrained culture in Brazil to this day of authoritarianism, and it contaminates the classroom. I can count on the fingers of one hand (and I have been here for five and a half years) the professors I have met and studied under at PUC who legitimately respect and take into consideration students ideas, and who give students the space to think critically about the law, the books and articles we read, or even the professor's own ideas. At AU, most (if not all) of the classes I took were discussion based, in a "Socratic" method. As I said, if we didn't do the reading, we couldn't keep up. The idea was for students to do the reading and challenge each other, to argue, discuss, and build ideas together in a critical way. One would think THIS was what law school is all about, but unfortunately most of my classes have been lecture-based, with the professor reading what the law says, telling us what the courts have decided (and even this is not usually done that much), and how the main authors interpret that law. If there are different point of views about the Law, professors will explain both of them to us. And that's it. We have to listen, write it down, write that on our exams and, by magic, you WILL get a 10. I cannot possibly tell you how frustrating that is to me. We are creating a legal culture that does not think critically about the law. And that is VERY, very dangerous, in my view.
I have to give PUC credit for one thing: the opportunities offered in Law School out of class, like research grants, the Teacher Assistant program, and the different law centers (Human Rights Center, Constitutional Law Center, and Environmental Law Center). These programs give the students who seek them amazing opportunities to do just that critical thinking in an academic environment. I have been involved with all of these centers and programs I mentioned before at one time or another during my time at school (as I said, five and a half years!), and the experience has been extraordinary. At PUC I have participated in Moot Court competitions, took part in critical thinking groups that discussed Human Rights, Freedom of Speech, Environmental Law, and have even taught a couple of classes as a TA. These activities have led me to where I am right now, in both my career and academic life, and I am grateful for them.
However, ever since I came back from the Abroad program, I have been increasingly frustrated with my school, and that's why I feel Flora's piece spoke to me so much, and I did tend to agree with her in most of it. It shouldn't take an outsider to tell us what the problems in our education system are for us to notice them, and I really feel like it's time for Brazilian students to sit down and have an honest conversation about it. I feel like both students and professors have so much room to grow academically and in their relationships, so I feel like not just the school NEEDS to step up when it comes to what they search for in professors, but also in students. A conversation would be a first step.
A disclaimer: I speak from my experiences alone, both in the Law School of PUC (so I can't speak for PUC in general, though I have heard similar reports from friends who take other courses), and in the AU Abroad program.
PUC São Paulo
"Clara"
Home School: George Washington University
Area of study in Brazil: Geography, Latin American History, International Affairs
On the academic challenge
I took three social sciences courses and therefore the majority of the courses included reading and discussion. Two of my classes assigned a lot of reading, as would a GW course, while the other only assigned one book. In the reading material intensive courses we were asked to pay for copies of the selected texts for class discussion. Since I was just learning Portuguese, it definitely took me a bit longer than the average student to read our assignments. So in that sense it was difficult because I had to read with my dictionary in hand to really understand the gist of the readings. None of my classes administered exams. However, we were assigned to write short summaries of the reading and answer certain questions. One class asked of us to create a historical magazine as the a final project, which I completed with the other 2 American students studying abroad with me. In this class, the Brazilians didn't want too much to do with us. One Brazilian admitted to me that they had done the magazine in one week, when my group put like a month into it since we had to edit our Portuguese. Also, I think our prof was pleasantly surprised when she saw our finished product because it was extensive and we made it look like an actually magazine with cover and all.
Perception of Brazilian students
This was completely different from what I was used to at GW. Of course, there will always be students that slack off and don't come prepared to class, but at PUC, most of the time the entire class came unprepared. In my geography class, in particular, from a group of 30 students, only 5 (this includes myself and the other gringa in class) turned in all of the 5 short EASY summary assignments the professor told us to do. Our grade was based off of these summaries. Towards the end, when he threatened to fail most of the class, they complain and got him to assign extra credit. Class discussions in this geography class consisted mostly of the professor talking and the Brazilian students walking in and out of class (usually to get high - this happened all over campus because the police are not allowed to come on the premises). On top of that, most of the students never did the readings even though I saw them paying for the copies. One time, the professor pointed out that myself and the other gringa were the only ones that had read and turned in all our summaries, even with limited Portuguese. My history was not as bad as my geography - the students did not come and go as they pleased. They were respectful to the professor. I remember there was one student that was very passionate about her choice of study and always participated. On a few occasions, the class had some very interesting debates. Now my IR class was great! The professor was very passionate about the study and so were the students. The prof didn't over burden us with readings, we were only assigned one book and a few writing assignments.
What she gained academically
Really, I learned to speak Portuguese (but this was because the exchange program that gave us Portuguese classes) and nothing else. If Brazil wasn't such an amazing country I would have seriously regretted my academic experience abroad.
Best part of the school
Honestly, the milho verde that they sold outside and the bar next to the school that had great caipirinhas.
"Amanda"
Home school: Master's program in the UK
Area of study in Brazil: Marketing in Latin America, Development & Sustainability, Corporate Social Responsibility
On the academic challenge
I found the workload at FGV to be MUCH lighter than the workload in the UK. However, I would say that it be attributed to fact that the courses were taken partially during the summer, and that a majority of students in the courses were exchange students. I lived with a German exchange student who was taking classes at USP and his workload was a bit more challenging – but not by much. The professors in the classes I took all had their own approach to teaching. One was very liberal, in terms of class structure, but he piled on loads of reading and gave us quizzes. One gave us case studies and structured the entire class around the case studies, and the other used lots of videos from Youtube to get his point across.
One thing I did notice about the professors at FGV was that they seemed to be very passionate and involved in their subject areas. Many of them had not only studied the subject, but had first-hand experience whereas in the UK, a lot of my professors were simply going through the motions in textbooks and had very little practical experience to relate to their subject area.
The assignments, both in Brazil and the UK weren’t too challenging to me. What was the most challenging was time management – which is what I believe graduate education teaches you most. In Brazil, most of our exams were simple essays that we did in our own time. One class, however, had a ridiculously difficult multiple-choice exam worth half of the mark and the other half was a ridiculously easy take home essay question. The professor did leave to take a phone call for the first 20 minutes of the exam so some people cheated on at least the first 5 questions (definitely like high school!).
I had classmates who studying in Paris, Brussels, Copenhagen, and Spain while I was in Brazil and they seemed to have more challenging programs than we did.
Perception of Brazilian students
I can’t comment on this too much considering I was in class with mostly gringos, but I couldn’t help but notice that wherever I went in Brazil, people would gasp at the thought of me studying at FGV, supposedly such a prestigious institution, when I thought it wasn’t so different –content-wise and thought it to be less challenging than my school in the UK, which isn’t well known or even internationally accredited like FGV.
What she gained academically
Academically speaking, I wouldn’t really call FGV a highlight in my educational career. However, I really enjoyed the subject areas I studied and how they were applied specifically to Brazil. I remember a lot of those things we discussed like Bolsa Família, local currencies, sustainable cities like Curitiba, Latin American companies, Petrobras’ CSR initiatives in the Amazon etc. I also liked the professors and how open-minded and available they were for the students. The program I went on was fairly new so I think given some time to get the kinks out and maybe after mixing up the demographic a bit, the program has the potential to be very good.
In short, what I got out of the course was a general understanding of Brazil as a country and how the subject areas I studied in Brazil could be applied to that particular economy. That coupled with my daily interactions, travel, and observation made the study abroad experience worthwhile.
Best part of the experience
The best part of FGV, to me, was the professors. They definitely made the experience better. I know of some students who went to dinner with their professor and checked-in with them frequently. I’m friends with one of my FGV professors on Facebook and following him on Twitter. In the UK, you might go to the pub with your professor and that’s it, but I think the professors in Brazil were much more open to interacting with students and listening to students’ opinions and suggestions on how the courses should be structured.
Private & public universities
PUC São Paulo / Universidade Católica de Salvador
"Susana"
Home school: George Washington University
Area of study in Brazil: Geography and International Relations
On the academic challenge
My workload in the US was different from my workload in Brazil, not necessarily that one was harder than the other more so that each educational system functions differently and classroom culture is completely different. In the US, I was used to 2 exams and a big paper in a class or 3 exams and series of reflection papers. Any mix of the following would be a good description of the usual workload I had in the US: papers, exams, reflection essays, maybe a presentation, but all of them evenly spread out throughout the semester. I thought that a university class was pretty independent because most teachers just hand out a syllabus and its up to the student to keep up with side readings (some readings are covered in class, or discussed... the others are yours for reinforcement -like case studies for example). In Brazil I realized classes were more independent that in the US. Your whole grade could be a big paper at the end or one exam at the end of the course that included every reading, whether or not it was discussed in class (but still on the syllabus). I also felt during my first few classes that things were laid back but as the semester picked up the discussions in class were very in depth and I realized most students were doing more reading than I had originally assumed.
Bottom line: I think in the states, students feel that they can read on their own time but that some of the info they were supposed to read will be covered in class or at least that teachers and lectures serve as checkpoints for the syllabus. I don't think Brazilian students have that expectation.
On differences between public and private universities
Private universities gave off a superficial vibe, not the teachers, but the students. The teachers were great in both universities. The students in the private universities were very fashionable, it felt like being at GWU where some times school felt like a fashion runway. The public ones were more organic and the students looked more bohemian, literally: dreads, beads, colored fabric, hemp bracelets. I made friends at the public university and not the private one. Why? I'm not sure, I don't want to say that one student body was friendlier than the other, that wouldn't be fair.
I signed up for a geomorphology class at the public university in Salvador in an attempt to knock out one of my geography requirements and I had to switch to another class because it was too rigorous and my Portuguese wasn't good enough. The class was very technical, we had planned site visits and independent research to carry out. I dont think the private university offered courses like that. The public universities seemed to have more technology available. Also, the teacher in this geomorphology class was also German. There were other foreign teachers at the public university. I never met or heard of any at the private university.
On differences between studying in São Paulo and Bahia
São Paulo has a more global attitude and its more open... to everything. Salvador is more local, not necessarily closed off because they are exposed to plenty with tourism but a foreign tourist impacts a community differently than a foreign resident. PUC-SP was used to foreign exchange students, Universidade Catolica de Salvador was not.
Perception of Brazilian students
Brazilian students were more chatty during class and I still can't understand how it's ok for a student to get up in the middle of class to take a (usually unimportant) call. Other than that you have slackers and overachievers packed into the same four walls. I think I noticed more socially conscious students in the public universities, involved in after school activities with strong political inclinations than in the private universities. I was also impressed with how many students worked (and not like work-study) and went to school at the same time. Brazilian students seemed very motivated to be able to balance the two.
What she gained academically
I learned a different language and I got "the other" perspective on Latin American politics. I think before studying abroad I thought of university as this big scary entity that I had to move around in and get into hard to get into classes, and go and talk to heads of departments and build relationships with teachers for recommendation letters - all of it was scary stuff. After having to move around in a different educational system, in a new language using non-verbal communication I had also just learned, going back to GWU for my final year seemed effortless. I realized if I could get through a year in a Brazilian university, I could do more to get more out of my education at GWU, push for internships, communicate more with my department, etc.
Public universities
Universidade de São Paulo
Shiva Motlagh
Home school: University of Adelaide (Australia)
Area of study in Brazil: Languages
In Brazil, I was enrolled in a Portuguese for foreigners class at UEA (Universidade Estadual de Amazonas) for 6 weeks before going to UENF in Campos dos Goytacazes, RJ for a semester. My classes were pretty evenly divided between ciências sociais (I took philosphy, geography and the history of education) and ciências ambientais (I took courses on field techniques, limnology, writing environmental impact statements) and I was required to do a federally funded research project as part of my grant (I worked on an economic valuation of river pollution in the Rio Paraiba do Sul).
On the academic challenge
The work load was very different in Brazil. Classes met once a week for 4 hours and didn't require much homework. I had about 1/5 of the amount of reading to do as I had in the US. The challenging part was having to do it all in Portuguese. Many of my teacher's didn't even speak English at all. I had teachers from Puerto Rico and France who didn't even speak Portuguese correctly when lecturing, which made things even harder.
Despite the language barrier, I ended up with the highest grade in my geography class and the other American got the second highest grade, which prompted the teacher to scold all the Brazilian students on a day when we both missed class. Some teachers didn't care about their teaching or work outside the lab and just read slides and left copies of them afterwards in the Xerox. Others purposely failed students so that they would have to take the class again. I remember being shocked when the philosophy teacher announced that he planned to fail everyone so that they would have the same class again next semester because he wasn't satisfied that they understood Plato well enough as a class. I worked harder in that class than in any other class in my college career, and managed to earn the tremedously high grade of a "6," passing by the skin of my teeth. Since students have no options as to which courses they can take and don't have to pay to retake them, I guess that reasoning works, but it definitely isn't fun for the students.
Generally speaking, classwork was easier, but it wasn't anyone's focus. Everything revolved around research - the goal for most kids being to present at as many conferences as possible, making contacts with prospectice graduate advisors and publishing if possible. It was hard for me to switch my priorities to be more in line with theirs.
Perception of Brazilian students
At a public university, everything is focused on research. That is what will get you a job, get you into grad school and help you make contacts in general. Classes are only an extra. Most Brazilian students seemed to have accepted that and therefore didn't take classes seriously. They would skip a lot more than Americans, go to class just to sign the attendance sheet before walking out the door, spend class passing notes and whispering among each other, etc.
Your grades don't matter at all for anything after graduation here, so the fact that I felt the need to ace a test rather than just pass left most of my classmates confused.
The teacher's really didn't care either. I remember rushing to my history of education class 15 minutes late once, nervous about being in trouble. When I got there, I was the only one in the room. Even the teacher didn't show up for another 15 minutes. Another teacher travelled for a month to go to various "congressos," leaving a masters student in charge of the class. I was a bit afronted, but no one else saw a problem in it since the teacher was an expert in his feild and was representing his lab and the university at diferent events during that time.
The conversation that most floored me during my study abroad happened at the end of the semester. I will never forget sitting around with my social science classmates as they debated which class each of them would chose to fail. They couldn't keep up with their lab work and all of their classwork, so many of them were happy to pick a class to fail and take again next semester. Classes meant nothing compared to the lab.
What she gained academically
Best part of the experience
I met my husband when I was studying at UENF.
Very nice article! Thank you! One word of caution--if you study at a public university in Brazil, you may find trouble because of strikes! While I was living in Rio de Janeiro the public university, UFRJ (Federal University of Rio de Janeiro) went on strike. My Brazilian host-brother was stuck for most of a semester, because his classes weren't being taught at UFRJ.
When I asked our liason from the University of California why were weren't at UFRJ or UES (the state school of Rio de Janeiro), he explained that the public universities in Brazil are far more likely to go on strike, and as an exchange student you would get caught it, and lose your exchange semester.
Posted by: Elena Como | November 01, 2011 at 10:57 PM
I really liked reading Flora's article, I thought she pretty much summed up how many of my friends have felt about taking a semester to study in Brazil. Although I also appreciated this Brazilian's perspective (her essay is written in English) which explained some of the issues that Flora had with the Brazilian educational system :
http://www.portugueseblog.org/2011/11/10/university-in-brazil-a-brazilian-perspective/
Thanks for your blog by the way Rachel, I read it all the time!
Posted by: Laurena | November 10, 2011 at 03:11 AM
@Elena, good point! @Laurena, thanks, I'm glad!
Posted by: Rio Gringa | November 10, 2011 at 09:02 PM
I am currently on exchange here at PUC Rio, and I am a friend of Flora's actually. I originally went to UCSC, and I would agree that academics here at PUC are certainly not to the level I am used to. Part of it is cultural, but culture doesn't justify everything. From what I understand, one of the biggest problems is that teachers in most disciplines are not required to take any courses on teaching. They can just be an expert in their field and that's enough, which showed quite a lot in the classes I took. My teachers knew a lot, but went about giving us that information very poorly.
Posted by: Juliana | November 27, 2011 at 06:24 PM